Auction of certain effects from Ramsgate Abbey

Auction of certain effects from Ramsgate Abbey. The monks left Ramsgate and its abbey in November. On the 8th and 9th Feb the firm of Dominic Winter, South Cerney, Glos. are auctioning these. effects as part of one of their important sales. I have raised the question of whether the monks had a right to do so and the legalities the Diocese will look into. However, and whatever the case, I deplore the fact that these effects were not offered to the diocese before departure of the monks. You can see these effects and the catalogue of which they are a section by going to the auction web site. www.dominicwinter.co.uk and following the links to the auction of art and antiques 8th and 9th Feb. Now whatever else transpires they have no right to sell by auction two important chalices which are consecrated objects. There is an ADVERT for the sale in todays "Daily Telegraph" which illustrates two items. One is a "recusant chalice " (in fact it is one of two chalices in the sale). Now judging by the picture it is certainly an old chalice but cannot be a true recusant chalice. These were small chalices which could be unscrewed into two pieces for easy transportation by the missioners who travelled the country whilst persecution of Catholics was strong. The valuation is £3ooo.oo to £5000.00 which might be OK as a valuation if it is a recusant chalice but is a false figure for the chalice based on age alone. However this begs the question...A chalice is a consecrated object and should not be sold at all, only handed on. To sell consecrated objects is simony and against Canon Law.
There are several other items including a pair of Altar Candelabra by Hardman. The Abbey was built by AW Pugin who used Hardman's for all necessary silver work and ornamentation in Churchs designed by AW P.
I will endeavour to find out if the monks have right of ownership...but the chalices should be withdrawn anyway. Do look at the link I give

Commenting continued

Commenting continued
CLIFTON DIOCESE..Key members of diocesn safeguarding (3) have just resigned from the diocesan board. The account in the Capsule is rather confused but the problem seems to have been that friends of a certain priest who was convicted of downloading porn and later accused but not convicted of breaching his sex offenses order, these friends had complained that the safeguarding officer had treated the priest unfairly and the first diocesan procedure found against the safeguarding officer but on appeal a second enquiry found in favour of the officer. She resigned and two other members resigned saying the diocese itself had not supported the safeguarding officer ! This is the problem as ever, how does a diocesan office support both the safeguarding officer AND the priest at the same time? One realises that full investigation has to be made into accusations but I have know several cases where clearly innocent priests, cleared by the police, have been kept waiting for months afterwards....and the longer this goes on for an innocent priest the more difficult it is for him to resume ministry. Both Bishop Ward and Fr Michael Hollings died shortly after being cleared and returning to ministry. Surely the procedures needed could be speeded up.? Furthermore, does downloading porn mean that the person downloading it is a real sex offender ? Hardly the same as a real abuse of another ?
DEATHS Fr Gregory Winterton of the Oratory at Birmingham died recently and spent most of his priestly life promoting the cause of Blessed Newman and at a great age had the satifacting of meeting the Holy Father when he visited the Oratory last year. Several tributes have already appeared.
The Capsule also reports the death ofo Margaret Feeny who spent a large part of her life in helping agencies involved in helping the hungry and in particular work for the Africa Centre. When she called a meeting in 1962 of existing agencies, the gathering led to the start of CAFOD. Earlier she had been a member of the Sword of the Spirit movement during the war and was connected with Catholic Institute of International Affairs which she handed over to Mildred Neville. I just wondered if I had smelt a little rat, may be nothing, but both CIIR and CAFOD have certain trends which traditional Catholics do not like...but the Capsule does ??? The CIIR is now called PROGRESSIO and I know nothing at all about it. Could someone enlighten me please ?

Press comments this week.

Press well before reading This week I only consider the Capsule.
DOWNS SYNDROME BOY Strange case here of the Capsule and the Catholic Herald (I think) reporting the same case and the same facts but stating different conclusions. The Case concerns a Downs Syndrome boy who was refused admission to a lst Communion class at his parish. When he missed the first class his parents were told he would have to wait. So the mother approached the Vicar General on the grounds that it was really discrimination against Downs syndrome children. Correctly the V.G. said that there might be concerns over the child's ability to understand the meaning of Holy Communion but that the diocese would examine how it could activele engage with the parents to reach a situation whereby the child could prepare for first Communion. The Capsule incorrectly headlined their account "Downs boy to receive Communion" while the Herald made clear a decision had not been made at the moment. The Church's position is that Downs syndrome children (varying in understanding) should be considered on an individual basis before a decision is made. The child (any child) should have an appreciation of what Holy Communion really means...the host is not merely a piece of bread...but Christ himself under appearances of bread and wine. In this case as in others, all parties should be considered..
CHRISTIAN UNITY> At home Cardin Murphy O Connor worries that ecumenism is undermined by lack of action by Christians on a local level in matters of co operation , joint action on issues, and lack of prayer together. Suspicion, inertia and impatiene, he urged, were the main causes of this position. "Ecumenical work requires perseverance over months and years" . The problem is that while in 50 years since the Council there has been a movement towards progress on these fronts, there has been virtually no progress on the read core issues, the vital differences of belief between the Catholic Church and the other ecclesial bodies over key issues, both moral and theological.
In his recent visit to Germany , the Holy Father spoke of "steps towards rehabilitating Luther", and that he was impressed by his Luthers struggle theological searching and inner struggle" over the key question of how does a person receive the Grace of God ? I have to say I feel rather uneasy about the idea of rehabiliting or re evaluating Luther and the Reformation.
MORE either tomorrow or Monday.

More Comments again

More Comments First something you will find amazing. I am agreement with the Laird on his article this week. He deals with the history of the word "Consubstantial" in the Creed and shows how the word was introduced after Nicea and then expresses his disagreement with the change of the word in the English Creed. My point is that the word has no meaning at all for the average P.I.P (person in pew) whereas the old translation "of same being" is the best translation possible for the word Consubstantialem in the Creed. It then has meaning for P.I.P.
LETTER IN CAPSULE from a Mr Burleigh who objects to Cardinals being called "Princes of the Church" He also objects to the majority of new CArdinals being from the Roman Curia and says it marks further evidence of a falterning Church stumbling backwards to a pre Vatican 2 presentation of itself....How have we arrived in 50 years to a curial centre more powerful than in Renaissance and post Tridentine days pre Vatican 1. Whatever happened to collegiality and the teachings of Vat 2 on episcopacy.? Well if there has been any going back, it is because some Bishops in the Church have gone too far the other way and all sorts of modernism and liberation theology need curbing from centre.!
ANOTHER LETTER From a Mr Loughran takes issue with Bishop Stack who had objected to this idea of "presumed organ donation" whereby your body can be cut up by doctors after death unless you opt out. I agree totally with Bishop Stack. Organ donation must be entirely voluntary.
IN THE CATHOLIC HERALD on page 7 we find a picture of one of those dreadful modernist church built in the 60's onwards. This one in South Ruislip London. It appears that the Congregation for Divine Worship is to issue guidelines in an attempt to ensure that future buildings avoid the desacralising atmosphere of many of these churches. The author of the accompanying article clearly likes these modernistic monstrosities including the one illustrated. The altar at the apex and the Blessed Sacrament tucked away in a wall behind. He then raves on about the post Vatican 2 changes which he says in practice if not in intention reoriented the practice of the liturgy away from the sanctuary and into the nave from the altar to the COMMUNITY AT THE ALTAR.! Encouraging people in the space to enagage as a corporate entity as EQUAL PARTS OF A SINGULAR AND INCLUSIVE ROYAL PRIESTHOOD...however unattractive to some are robust manifestations of the renewed theology of Vat 2.!!

Start of fresh comments etc varia

Start with a Note Following a comment a now realise that you cannot watch Desert Islands again on Sunday because the weekday edition is in fact a repeat of the Sunday. However you can get on i player.
THANKS FOR COMMENTS AGAIN. I was glad to see that two letters in this weeks CAPSULE also agree that the death recorded in Genesis is spirituall death of loss of Sanctifying Grace not actual death which is part and parcel of our life Cycle. A third letter supported the original letter and as usual wanted a complete view of all our doctrines !
OTHER POINTS part one. The main stress in both the Capsule and the Catholic Herald seems to be on the problems of Downside Abbey. AS a frequent visitor I am much saddened. However the impression given in one article is that 7 monks are currently under investigation. This is not true. One case involves a monk who left the monastery many years ago and now lives in Ireland . Fr Anthony Sutch was completely cleared and I believe is now back in his Parish. Fr Nicolas of course was teaching at the monastery back in the 80's and was cautioned then but not charged. He was placed at Fort Augustus until that closed down and returned to Downside with no contact with the pupils. More recently the Police re opened his case and he is now serving a term in Prison. Fr Dunstan was accused only of downloading porn...and there was no question of abuse. He is now laicisied after a term in prison. Fr Appleby's case does not involve boys at all but a misplaced friendhip with an adult. That leaves two monks still at the monastery but under caution now to have anything to do with the school. The school area is now almost completely cut off from the monastery and boys and girls are not allowed in at all even to the library. (they have their own library anyway)
So although the problem is serious there, it has been overhyped and misrepresented by the media. I have know the present Abbot for a long time..even before he became a monk. He is a leading Catholic Historian.
Now I must leave the rest until either late Sunday or Monday.

Did you hear Paul Johnson on Desert Island discs this morning....first class

Paul Johnson If you missed dessert island discs this morning it is usually repeated Sunday at 11.00 or 11.30am Informative and useful and very funny. Johnson now 83 is a Catholic educated at Stonyhurst. He was taught well by his mother who told him there were no grey areas in morality..that Jesus taught that actions were either right or wrong (in themselves that is).
At her d eathbed aged over 90 he told her that she had always been a good Catholic and would quickly be in heaven...that she had never done any wrong. She replied "well I have been critical of the clergy at times" Haven't we all ! Last year he took the aged Margaret Thatcher to Rome to meet Pope Benedict and though ailing she said how much she enjoyed the meeting.
The first time they spoke was when students at Oxford and he asked if she would like to punting. She turned down the offer saying she might get her hair wet. There many other wonderful anecdotes also. The music was rather bland however he did pick Mozarts Ave VErum in memory of Stonyhurst.

another apology and other matters

Further apology needed as I do not now think I will be able to post tomorrow. My old friend and confessor #Fr John Hartley is out of hospital and I wish to see him tomorrow. So I wont have time for the hPress comments.


I read a rather alarming talk given by the Holy Father to a group of American Bishops (from Vat News) He speaks of a growing threat in the States that freedom of religion is under attack from the secular humanists in the States who in some states at least refuse to concede to medics who state a conscientious objection to performing immoral procedures on patients like abortion etc. The Holy Father is alarmed that an anti Catholic prejudice is growing over there.